All vibes are welcome here! This week's episode is focused on an issue that doesn't always present itself as an issue at first - Toxic Positivity. Join Veronica Whalen Jones, Associate Director for UREC Health Promotion, and Cassidy Mechalske, Coordinator for the Dean of Students and a member of the JMU Rebound team for a conversation on why being all smiles all the time isn't realistic.
Resources
Dean of Students: REBOUND click here!
UREC Wellness Coaching Services click here!
Counseling Center click here!
Student Activities and Involvement click here!
Follow us on Social Media!
@jmuurec & @jmuwelldukes
Be Well, Dukes!
All vibes are welcome here! This week's episode is focused on an issue that doesn't always present itself as an issue at first - Toxic Positivity. Join Veronica Whalen Jones, Associate Director for UREC Health Promotion, and Cassidy Mechalske, Coordinator for the Dean of Students and a member of the JMU Rebound team for a conversation on why being all smiles all the time isn't realistic.
Resources
Dean of Students: REBOUND click here!
UREC Wellness Coaching Services click here!
Counseling Center click here!
Student Activities and Involvement click here!
Follow us on Social Media!
@jmuurec & @jmuwelldukes
Be Well, Dukes!
MG: Welcome back to the Well Dukes podcast. This is Mary Grace, your host, and this week we're going to talk a little bit about toxic positivity, as well as some of the negative emotions that we don't always easily express. I do have a special guest with us today and I'll let her go ahead and introduce herself.
Veronica: Hello, my name is Veronica Jones. I use she/her pronouns and I am the Associate Director for health promotion at UREC.
MG: So we'll go ahead and jump into the conversation about toxic positivity. Veronica, Can you tell me a little bit more about what that means and when we typically see it?
Veronica: Sure, I think the first thing to acknowledge is that those two words are not necessarily
things that often go together. The concept of something being toxic but also positivity.
So just acknowledging that, but toxic positivity has a few different definitions, one that particularly resonates with me is the excessive, and in effective tendency to always make the best out of a bad situation. For me, I call it always going for the silver lining or trying to Silver Line things, and it is something that I think many people do without recognizing what they're doing and then when you are aware of it, it becomes more evident in a lot of ways how we're conditioned to always try to be optimistic or make the best out of a bad situation or to want to gloss over things and say it's all going to work out in the end. And I want to recognize that the intention of our friends and family who do these things is not to invalidate our experiences, however, that is what happens by doing this.
So toxic positivity, if someone is sharing with someone in their life that something is going difficult or something is going hard for them or things aren't going well or they've had a negative experience and their responses. It's all going to work out, or hey at least X, Y, & Z. What that does is it invalidates someone's feelings and their own experiences, and I think then that could possibly down the road transfer to someone not wanting to share with someone when things aren't going well because if the response is always. “It's okay, it's all going to work out” or “find the good in this situation.” It can make the person experiencing that think why would I even want to share this with you when you're not really hearing me or you're not seeing me or at least recognizing that this stinks right now so I think it can have issues in the short term but possibly for relationships in the long term as well.
MG: Absolutely. One of the things that I noticed whenever I was kind of brushing back up on toxic positivity, was the idea that it's something that comes without thinking about it's something that we just want to reassure or make someone feel better and then we really ended up pushing them away or creating some distance where they really don't want to have those conversations with us. And that's also something that I think feeds into the culture of like positive vibes only like we're only going to be happy around here.
Veronica: Yes, and that can leave someone to think well if I'm not in a place today where I have only positive vibes am I not welcome here and we're coming off a time for the past several years or it has been a lot of positive vibes only you know, make the best out of things and I think we're seeing the backlash to that and I think toxic positivity can send the message that experiencing failure or experiencing negative feelings or emotions isn't okay. When the reality is that is part of people's human experience, people experience failure, things don't always go as planned for some reason we experienced negative emotions or feelings sometimes we know why sometimes we don't know why it doesn't mean that those things are not valid and that they are not worthy of acknowledging and I think that is inherently the issue with toxic positivity, is that it unintentionally shuts down that person's feelings and experiences. And I understand why people go to this because it's very human. We don't want the people around us to not feel good about things or we want to build people up. I think there's a way to do that and still acknowledge the difficult times that people are experiencing.
MG: Absolutely, and one of the things that I have recently been reminding myself even, it's just that it's okay to have bad days, and it's okay to express negative emotion. It's something that we don't want to do when somebody asks us how we're doing today because the correct answer is always, “I'm good. How are you?”, and there is a difference obviously you know when you're walking into a class and, you know, somebody that you don't know very well asked you that , sometimes it's easier to say, “yeah, it's fine it's, it's going whatever”, but when it's you know someone that cares about you it's a family member or close friend. That's a time when we should take the opportunity to really tell somebody how we are feeling, and if we are close enough within those relationships to be asking someone how they're feeling and be ready for that response. Then we also have to be ready to sit in those days that aren't as good as the others and the emotions that come behind it.
So, Veronica, whenever we're in a situation where somebody has disclosed that negative information to us and we just like don't really know how to respond. Empathy is always the first thing that we want to offer but do you have any suggestions of some of the wording that we could utilize or some of the good responses to that?
Veronica: Yeah, I think, one of my favorite go-tos. And I think I appreciate this because if I'm sharing something with someone in my life, and they say this back to me, I feel validated is, that sounds really hard, or that stinks, that sucks whatever you want to say to acknowledge that yes, this is not okay or that was messed up. I think that is one way, just naming it for the person who's experiencing whatever it is they're experiencing.
I think we always want to know the quote on quote right thing to say. The reality is we don't. And that's okay. It is okay for us as humans to experience the full range of our emotions. It's also okay to not know how to respond and not how to fix something that can be uncomfortable for a lot of us. We are inherently, again fixers, we want to make things better. And sometimes we just can't. So acknowledging whatever someone is saying validating it if someone says, I'm so mad about X, Y, & Z, to say, I, I think it's okay that you're mad about X, Y, & Z, or of why wouldn't you be mad about that or yes this is that sounds really hard and not try to immediately going to fix it mode, which many of us have to stop ourselves, it might be that validation and acknowledgement and then just hit the pause button. Wait and see what the person we're talking to has to say because often they may respond with Thank you, or yes you're right I feel heard that might be all that that person needs I'm a firm believer that if people wanted my opinion, or my advice, they would ask me for it, and there's a lot of times in my life where I freely gave those things and I understand now that maybe that wasn't the best way to do things. I am a true believer that people inherently have their own inner wisdom, and that they will come to that sometimes we need help along the way, but to constantly give opinions or advice when they're not asked for that can create a wall in a relationship so I think it's different than validating and affirming how someone feels rather than trying to fix it for them.
MG: Absolutely I am definitely someone who is very empathetic, but part of that being that I want to fix situations I do want to be that fixer. And it's taken some time to realize that I can't fix everything and sometimes you know all your friend or your significant other wants to hear is, yeah, That really sucks, like, tell me more if you want to, and to just sit in that kind of uncomfortable feeling of I can't do anything, but I'm going to be here with you, because that's the best that I can do, and oftentimes that is what somebody is seeking from, venting from someone else to someone else. And it's definitely not an easy feeling to be there with someone else and feel hopeless or helpless, that you can't do anything for them.
But what is, what are some of the ways that we can choose to normalize sitting in those emotions?
Veronica: I think one is recognizing that as friends or loved ones who might be hearing that someone is experiencing a tough time, negative emotions that just being there is doing something we don't have, and recognizing that you know we might think I didn't do anything. I was just there. Sometimes that's all that someone needs is someone to listen. I love the LUV acronym. Listen, understand, and validate and even if we can't fully understand, just trying to understand, I think, recognizing that as much as sometimes we want to plow through the things in our life that maybe aren't going well or the feelings that we have that aren't always positive or happy.
That's not how things work, and sometimes being with those things, is what we need to do, and I'm a big proponent of self compassion so if someone is experiencing a failure or something didn't go right to also extend that love to ourselves and to say hey, I tried the best I did the best I could. I tried my hardest and maybe it didn't work out so well. And that is not a reflection of myself worth. I think sometimes we equate how we're feeling with who we are. And that emotions are not our identity. It's just not like that you know if I'm feeling sad one day, that doesn't mean I'm a sad person. If, in certainly on the other end if I'm happy one day, it doesn't mean that translate to me being a happy person all the time we are so much more than that. I think that it is important for us to recognize that experiencing a range of our emotions, allows us to also know what emotions are, if someone is always trying to plow through and have a happy day all the time. Then how would we ever know when things aren't going well you know we don't know what, um, you know, a bright sunny day looks like if we haven't experienced moonlight so you have to know what these things are and recognize that as much as we want everything to go our way all the time. That's just not reality and finding a sense of acceptance within that. And also not attaching our self worth to the emotions we experience every day, we are so much more than that and i and i think that's a really important thing for people to understand that who you are in one moment you're bigger than that and then that means a lot.
MG: Absolutely. And that's something that our students that are in college on their own for the first time are often having to learn in these moments. And one of the things that you said that we are more than our emotions, really popped out to me personally because that took me longer than just my undergrad experience to realize I think it's something I'm still on that journey of finding out for myself and working through grad school and going through counseling classes, definitely have one made me a better listener, I realized after my first semester I hadn't been the best listener, sometimes, you know, you just have to shut up and turn your brain off, and actually listen to what the other person is saying. But the biggest part of that being that you also have to listen to those emotions and you have to listen to the thoughts in your mind because they are a combination of all of our life experiences up to this point. And something that I recently heard from one of the counselors in my life, is that that voice is our parents' upbringing, and it's their voice in our mind until we develop it and create it to be our own voice. And I just thought that was such a profound and, like, amazing thing that I had never thought before, it wasn't my own thoughts, it was the way that my parents had reacted to things.
And that makes so much sense about how I am now constructing my own voice, and sometimes I don't know how to think or feel about the way that you know I'm feeling myself or the way somebody else has disclosed and it's all part of that journey of finding ourselves, and I don't think I realized that until you know 25 years old this year.
Veronica: Well we put a lot of emphasis on learning, learning, learning which is great, I love learning. I work in higher education. I think that life is not only a process of learning who we are. It is also a process of unlearning what has been put upon us and a lot of ways that might not be serving us so we may have learned certain things. And then maybe finding that does not serve me anymore. How can I unlearn that how can I let that go. And that's not always easy for you. For many of us, it may have been yours very developmental years of receiving messages about how we should think about things how we should react about things about who we should be, and giving ourselves permission at times to recognize that, maybe, and sometimes those things align and that is that's good and sometimes those things don't align. And that can be good to it gives us an opportunity to really reflect, why, why do I think this or what what is beneath this feeling and some, and that can be deeply uncomfortable because it's not because, you know, someone set out to teach us or instill us harmful things but you know what's good for one person maybe isn't going to be good for another I love the term don't yuck my young know if someone reacts to something in one way that might be good for them that may not be good for me so allowing for those differences, But again, a huge learning and unlearning process.
MG: I think that's something that I really want our students, listening to hear, just that it takes a long time to figure out who you are as a person and you're not going to find that out in the first year that you're on campus, it's going to take a lot of time, and it's going to take those difficult situations where you have to decide, like, which way am I going here and what do I actually think, and to know that you know don't young, my young like everyone has different opinions and everybody has different things that they're very into, and that is what makes, not only like the university so amazing but that's what makes our world so amazing. And just because you might not like something that someone else does, doesn't mean that you know you carry that irritation or that negative emotion around with you, and to really learn how to one compartmentalize emotions but also know like when it's appropriate to move forward with those, and when it's appropriate to know that the little details in a little differences and friendships, don't mean that you can't be friends with that person. It just means that you have to learn how to accept or understand those various areas.
Veronica: Absolutely, and we only see many times in our society in the course this is my opinion especially through social media, either the highlight reel more the, the really not so great side of things so it's two very different ends of the spectrum. I don't think we are off, often normalizing the mundaneness of daily life which is also beautiful in and of itself to have days that, you know, sometimes things aren't great, I'm not really happy. I'm certainly not very sad I just am and normalizing that that is okay too. That's, that's not a good or a bad we don't have to you know make a judgment on that that is how a lot of us spend our lives in this state of. I'm here, I'm chugging right along but that's a good thing. And, you know, we've received some messages as a society about, You know what we should be doing, how we should be living our lives and really that's up to the individual our successes and our failures do not dictate who we are, we dictate who we are and I think there is a time and a place for folks if they are feeling you know more negative emotions more often. But on the whole, you know that might mean someone you know, talking to someone is a good idea, but on the whole people experience a full range of emotions, often in their entire day within 30 minutes segment where we're human and I think extending that humaneness to ourselves is vastly important, especially now we have had a huge upturn in our whole world. So of course we're coming out of this and things feel weird and awkward but also hopeful and exciting. It's a lot of emotions and in around that and I think sometimes we rush to judge ourselves when maybe we don't need to have an opinion or a judgment about what we're feeling and thinking sometimes again just being with it and watching it can be really impactful, it's not necessarily comfortable, but it can be helpful.
MG: Yeah, giving ourselves Grace is so very important. And one of the things that I have thought more about recently is whenever I'm feeling certain emotions about how I've produced schoolwork or something within my personal life or my work life. And I'm not feeling great about it, I think, oh well if one of my friends were telling me this I would tell them to give themselves grace because they had done the best that they can and all that we can do from that point is, learn, and if we're not doing the best that we can. Then, recognizing that and trying harder next time is the way that we become better people. So my question for you, Veronica would be within our close friendships and relationships, or rather with somebody, entering into those during their college experience. What is the best way to really break that outer layer of. I'm perfect and the world is perfect and letting somebody into that, like, really knowing ourselves or seeing each other for who we are?
Veronica: That's a really good question, and I think the answer is complex and not as clear cut as many people probably want it to be. Being vulnerable and transparent takes an element of safety and relationships. I think many of us spend time kind of getting to know people whether it's a new romantic relationship, a new friendship. It takes a while to realize how open or how much of me can I be here. But I think when that happens, being open with people to say, If someone is always trying to put a silver lining on something that you're saying, I appreciate what you're doing and I know what you're trying to do. That's not helping me. I just want you to listen, or agree with me. I have said that to people in my life and it, but it's because they don't know what they're doing. So I think, and again I guess what I'm trying to say is advocating for your own needs, which is not always easy and again it is born of those times when we can be ourselves when we have trust and when we feel that we can be vulnerable with others to say, you know, not just shut up that's not helpful but a I know what you're trying to do and I appreciate that because you care about me and what I need for you to do is listen and validate me. And again, those are not easy but again. Communication, authentic communication setting boundaries is not easy, but I think of it as composting once you get through it you get through the yick, then you start to grow flowers out of it. and I think us as human beings, I really liked the symbol of the lotus flower because the lotus flower grows out of Muddy Waters. And I, my favorite yoga teacher in the world Judith Hansen, always says May you be like a lotus flower growing out of Muddy Waters because truly No matter how much positivity we put on anything. We all have our own muddy waters that we're growing out of.
MG: That is beautiful. I really love that and I have been practicing yoga for a while and I haven't heard that. So I might have to check some of that out as well in my free time. I definitely think there's something to be said for coming into relationships vulnerable and being willing to be authentic and open with that and I really try to live by that. And I think that it has done me well especially like coming into grad school and entering into a place where I don't know anyone and I had to kind of create my own home here, and once again I did that in my summer internship where I didn't know anyone, and it was a completely new experience, and the relationships I was able to form they're really for me exemplified how true it is that when you come into a situation, and you're authentic and you're vulnerable, Just how well received, that is, and given back to and turn. And so I think that's one of the things that I want our listeners to really notice and like to hear that one toxic positivity isn't really helping anyone, and there's a time to be positive and to bring positive things to light. But there's also time to be sad and to share that emotion with those around you, because that is truly what bonds us together, and we are once again more than our emotions.
Veronica: Absolutely. And it may not be feeling sad, it might be angry, it might be feeling apathetic but to recognize as humans we again experience a full range of emotions. That's who we are. And sometimes it's not worth fighting it, it's worth embracing who we are and recognizing this is all part of the human lived experience.
MG: And honestly, that's what makes life so beautiful. I definitely think there's something to be said for when you are experiencing negative emotion over a long period of time, and how that can be signs of depression and or anxiety and there are so many other things that surrounding mental health are very important to look out for. And I don't want that to go unsaid here today. So Veronica, can you tell me about some of the resources that you might recommend around campus for our students to look into when they're having a difficult time.
Veronica: Yeah, JMU has a lot of great resources, and we would spend a lot of time going over all of them so I think I will highlight the ones that students are aware of but maybe aren't always thinking of one is always our Student Counseling Center which is fantastic for students who are wanting counseling around mental health. We also have our rebound program, which is through our dean of students office, which is helpful for students to get connected to a campus mentor because again, sometimes, learning to work through life's ups and downs might mean connecting with another human. We also have wellness coaching with a substance misuse focus and also a sexual health focus here at UREC again if someone is having questions or wanting to talk with someone about their experience and trying to get information or seeking behavior change those can be really great. I also want to emphasize that we as humans can be resources for each other so if someone feels a particular connection to a faculty or staff member, connecting with them to fellow students, we are resources for each other. And I think that's something that we always need to keep in mind.
MG: We definitely need to keep that in mind because human connection is the essence of life, and it's the way that we experience joy and happiness and sadness and our full range of emotion.
I want to take a moment to highlight the rebound program with the dean of students and we actually have a special guest with us today that will give us a little bit more information about that.
Cassidy: Hello everybody my name is Cassie Michalski I use she/her pronouns and I'm the coordinator and the Dean of Students Office, very new to the role, but in my role I directly oversee our rebound program which I'm so happy to be talking through a little bit today with everyone.
MG: Yes, Cassie I'm so excited to have you here today, Cassie is actually a graduate from the same program that I'm in. So we share that mutual interest, I guess, and I love everything about the Dean of Students Office, I've gotten to learn a little bit throughout my time here, and I'm excited to learn a little bit more about rebound, I think it's a great resource for students, and I'll let you go ahead and start with an overview of what rebound really is.
Cassidy: Yeah, so I'll try to be a little brief in my explanation and answer some follow up questions but one rebound is very new so I'm sure a lot of the listeners are like what are you talking about, that's okay. It was launched, like 2019 but really actually technically 2020 and we all know how that went. So it's a baby program that's trying to still build its foundation, and get out there to students, I'm so happy to yeah I can be sharing a lot of what it's about. So rebound is kind of trying to do two things. One of which is really just creating a community. So rebound is trying to start conversations to normalize, and talk about the fact that college is hard, and so obstacles are normal, and oftentimes when we face failure and we fall down, and two things happen we feel very negative about that experience, and we feel alone in that. And rebound is trying to switch the narrative and really turn it into a positive, normal learning moment, and to make everyone feel a little less alone in those obstacles, whether that's failing a class, breaking up with a partner or experiencing grief, I mean it really can range on what that means for everybody. So that's the huge chunk of rebound is just that community piece, which is really what resonates with me. But then we also have our mentor program within that. And that is an eight week long one on one, mentor experience where somebody that wants to connect can get connected to a mentor. And that process is really what a student wants it to be. But there is a curriculum that allows space and reflection on so many different areas of wellness. So it goes from academic wellness to emotional to physical, spiritual to, you know, all the ranges of areas and what we find is they're all actually really interconnected. So it allows a great space to process a lot of things, you know, in many different ways. So that's kind of the two things that rebound tries to do, and the quickest way possible, to explain.
MG: Those are awesome. I think that coming to college a lot of students are experiencing that time of being on their own for the very first time as well as experiencing that failure or that setback for the first time, and experiencing that when you are just building new friendships and you don't have that support system of your family close by, can be really hard and so rebound is an amazing opportunity to really build that from the ground up and provide that place that safe space for our students. And I know that you said it's an eight week mentorship program. Who are the mentors for this eight week program, like a professional staff member or another student?
Cassidy: Yeah. Currently, they're all full time professional staff members across campus. We have a ton of different areas represented, whether in like the career center or, you know, opposite Disability Services, but we also have faculty members and we do have a couple graduate students that work very closely with rebound so that is a potential as well. And we do eventually hope to expand more into graduate students, maybe student leaders on campus, but currently we are at just full time professional roles as our mentors and a really really good group of very passionate, you know, staff members on campus.
MG: That's amazing to have a full time staff member, be willing to give their time to this, it really sounds like they provide that perspective of I've been there, and I can show you how to make it through because I made it through, and it's a perfect example of like that success story. So I love that it's an opportunity to connect our students with a professional staff member on campus. A lot of times, that also means that our undergraduate students don't feel as intimidated, going into their areas as well. So like once I started working in the Career Center, It didn't seem scary anymore and that's just, I think an added benefit to the program, but I'm excited to hear about how much there is to really offer here. So can you tell me a little bit more about whether this is exclusively for students who are experiencing a setback, or is it also for those students who are maybe just afraid of experiencing a setback or haven't been able to find community on campus yet?
Cassidy: Yeah, and I'll say, it's really for everybody because we want students to engage proactively, and really come to college, knowing that setback is normal so that they when they do experience it, they're very proactive in the understanding that here at JMU we have a culture that this is okay. You're not a failure, this is not negative, so engaging in that way very proactively is absolutely an option. And so, even just engaging with the stories online, or getting connected to our mentor experience that can happen at any time in your college journey, before or during, or after an obstacle reset back. And we really don't have any, like, off period, you can really engage in anytime there's benefits to everything, whether that's the beginning of the semester and you have eight weeks to start off, eight weeks to end, or if you start kind of north towards the end of the semester. You can stay connected to write out your semester and also to begin your semester. So we really don't have any off periods. It's really open at all times to everyone.
MG: That's amazing to hear I think that's something that I was definitely wondering after looking into this a little bit so I'm glad to hear that it's kind of a rolling process, you can jump in whenever you're experiencing that struggle, and you don't have to, you know, wait for the entire new semester to start with this program. And it really sounds like it's a great way to have support maybe when the Counseling Center is a little bit overwhelmed in the middle of the semester, and I know that a lot of our students are utilizing the Counseling Center, and that can sometimes put an overflow there, and it makes a little bit more difficult for students to get in who really need that help. So it sounds like rebound is a great alternative to going to the counseling center if somebody is just struggling with, you know, a normal human thing that's been coming to college is that kind of where the program started?
Cassidy: Yeah, yeah, really started to address this need of students just sometimes need somebody to talk to. And our mentors are not counselors, we're not trying to be counselors.
So please if you have anxiety depression needs our counseling centers there to help, but a lot of what the Counseling Center is currently seeing is stress management and just trying to navigate this college transition which is hard. And so having direct support in that way just to talk through and set some action plans and get connected to resources that can help with that college transition and normal stress management is absolutely what is really beneficial about having this program as. As an alternative, or addition to the counseling center depending on where you're at. But yeah, I think that that's a really good point too and we need to be helping our counseling center out in any way we can. And I know that there's been some moments where students can't get connected to them because they're so overwhelmed. And so rebound is an alternative for those yeah very normal human experiences, and to navigate through that with somebody.
MG: Yeah, thank you for making that clarification to stress management is very different than some of the mental health struggles that we do still see on our campus, and making sure that we can understand the difference between stress management, versus, you know actually struggling with mental health and wellness, it's very important both of those are very important and stress management definitely can show itself in ways similar to anxiety and depression. So hopefully our students are able to really get to the root of what it is that's causing them so much anguish or making them have a less than amazing college experience and rebound sounds like the perfect way to get involved in that.
I know that rebound also has a podcast where they share some stories as well as that true?
Cassidy: Yes. So yeah, that's one of our newer things and ways in which students can engage with stories across campus and so I am happy to engage with another podcast friend that understands it! So yes, I think the rebound podcast would be a really great way to connect. We have our YouTube channel which has a lot of videos of stories. Even Dr. Miller himself is on there talking about failing calculus. But then we also have our podcast, which is great to listen to as you're driving to campus or getting ready, or even in the background as you study. Dr. Miller hosts those episodes for us, he's very engaged with the rebound process. And we have had faculty members, alumni and current students. So that's a really great way to engage as well. And if you follow us on our social media, just @jmurebound, our Instagram account, we post Anytime my podcast gets uploaded there. We probably post every couple weeks on Tuesdays. So, Yeah, thanks for asking. That's a really great plug to engage students in that as well.
MG: Absolutely. They can hop on to listen to rebound on a Tuesday and then you know listen to the well Dukes on Wednesday, just keep them there and week for a little bit. Cassidy, thank you so much for just sitting down and giving me an overview of rebound. It sounds like it is an amazing experience for students to be a part of. Can you just leave us with the best way for students to connect with rebound or get involved.
Cassidy: Yeah, absolutely. So like I said just to engage in that community aspect is really watching the stories, listening to the podcast, connecting to our social media. Anyone can also share their story at any time. So, that's also you don't have to go through the mentor experience to share your rebound story. So to either share your story or get connected to the
Mentor side of the program is really just to contact the Dean of Students Office, so dean of students@jmu.edu, or give us a call and look on our website. And that's a really great way to just get direct direct access to that program and all of that will be forwarded to me so you can, yeah, you'll hear from me if you reach out.
MG: So Veronica, we've gotten to hear a little bit more about the rebound program and it definitely sounds like a fantastic way for students to get involved on campus and find a community. So my question for you today would be, what advice would you give your younger self when creating connection throughout that college experience.
Veronica: Oh, that's a good one. I would tell myself to go out and make more connections. That is one thing I wish I had done more of and I did it more through like my last year in college I think I was, I don't know what I think I was, I think I was just maybe nervous, or just scared to maybe get out of my own comfort zone and maybe get involved in things that I wasn't sure were for me or not. So I would say this is such a unique time to be around so many people that are in a similar age group that if someone is thinking of one thing they want to try and a club or anything like that. Just try it. Why not, it may be for you and maybe not. We have hundreds of clubs on our campus. So I think being open to new opportunities and experiences I know that can come with a bit of for some of us like me a bit of apprehension. But I think, in the end, just trying it because you know it at the worst it's not for you at the best, you have found something you're interested in and met a whole bunch of new people.
MG: Yes, I love that and I think that's something that I would also completely agree with, and getting involved on campus was the way that I made all of my really good friends in undergrad. And my first year, you know I have a hard time making friends and when I found some, They were great, but they weren't my people, and knowing that the first friends you make when you're in college, aren't necessarily to be the friends that you keep forever and that's okay. And once you really get into the areas that you are passionate about and that really excite you you'll find people that are there for the same reasons. And once you find those friendships, share those emotions and share life because that is what makes it worth living. Veronica, thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate you and Veronica is a great resource on campus, and hopefully you're taking a little bit of what she said today with you.
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