SOGIE is back for another episode! Join Vic, the SOGIE Educational Coordinator and volunteers Lynn, Fadia, and TJ as they discuss the myths and misconceptions about “Coming Out”. You'll hear their tips and tricks on how to receive someone coming out, navigating coming out in different spaces, and lastly their own personal experiences and stories.
A full transcript of this week's episode can be found here.
Check out all the great events and opportunities SOGIE has to offer by following them on social media @JMU.SOGIE.
LGBTQ+ Films/Media referenced in this episode:
LGBTQ+ Icons/Figures referenced in this episode:
Be Well Dukes!
All episodes of Season 1 (2020 - 2021) were recorded when The Office of Health Promotion or, The Well, was a part of the University Health Center and located in the Student Success Center. As of summer 2021, The Well no longer exists and we are now UREC Health Promotion. Check out Season 2 Episode 1 to learn more about these changes or visit JMU University Recreation's website.
SOGIE is back for another episode! Join Vic, the SOGIE Educational Coordinator and volunteers Lynn, Fadia, and TJ as they discuss the myths and misconceptions about “Coming Out”. You'll hear their tips and tricks on how to receive someone coming out, navigating coming out in different spaces, and lastly their own personal experiences and stories.
A full transcript of this week's episode can be found here.
Check out all the great events and opportunities SOGIE has to offer by following them on social media @JMU.SOGIE.
LGBTQ+ Films/Media referenced in this episode:
LGBTQ+ Icons/Figures referenced in this episode:
Be Well Dukes!
All episodes of Season 1 (2020 - 2021) were recorded when The Office of Health Promotion or, The Well, was a part of the University Health Center and located in the Student Success Center. As of summer 2021, The Well no longer exists and we are now UREC Health Promotion. Check out Season 2 Episode 1 to learn more about these changes or visit JMU University Recreation's website.
Episode 6: Coming Out
(0:00) Intro: Hi there! Welcome to Well Dukes, brought to you by The Well. Each week, you’ll hear conversations from a variety of JMU staff and students that we hope will challenge what you know, think, or do in regard to your own health and helps you be Well Dukes.
(0:23) Vic: Hi, everyone, welcome back to well Dukes. My name is Vic Tedrow. I am the educational coordinator at SOGIE, which stands for Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Expression. To learn more about us, you can listen to the episode prior called “Identities 101.” In today's episode, we will be discussing the process of coming out, coming out misconceptions, tips and tricks, and personal stories. I have three lovely guests with me today, all SOGIE volunteers and feel free to introduce yourselves.
(0:52) TJ: Hi! My name is TJ Oxbrough. I go by he/him/his and identify as a gay male. And I'm a freshman vocal music education major here at James Madison University.
(1:07) Lynn: Hi, I'm Lynn Vassar. I use they/them pronouns. And I identify as a bisexual NB. I am also a freshman, and I am currently a psychology major.
(1:18) Fadia: Hello, everyone. My name is Fadia Vergara. I use they/she pronouns and I identify as a queer human. I currently am not going to school at JMU, but I am a volunteer at SOGIE. Yeah.
(1:41) Vic: Thank you. I'll just also add, I use she/they pronouns, and I identify as queer, pansexual, gay. So I want to establish first: what is coming out? I'm sure you've heard this term before. But to just clarify, from the University of Wisconsin LGBTQ+ Resource Center, they define “coming out” as a lifelong process of understanding, accepting, and acknowledging your identity as LGBTQ+ or similar identity. Coming out includes both exploring your identity and sharing that identity with others. The first person you have to come out to is yourself. And if any of you have anything you want to expand on what coming out means to you, or if there's a better definition you've heard of, feel free to just add in there, but I thought that one was pretty good.
(2:30) Fadia: Yeah, I love that. It says it's a lifelong process. We'll kind of get to that in some of the myths. But yeah, it's not just the one time you know... came out and that's it. Mm hmm.
(2:44) Vic: Yeah. So our first myth, you might hear something like, it's a scary rite of passage, but it gets better. So this myth is saying that coming out only happens once-- again, this is a lifelong process. It's not the happy ending, or the peak of queerness. Maybe it is for some, and that's okay. But it doesn't have to be this huge thing. And isn't going to happen once it has to happen in continuous moments in different environments you enter. So this is coming from Everyday Feminism, some harmful myths about coming out. But I don't know if any of you have experienced this personally. But I definitely think this is the number one myth that people perceive coming out to be especially because in media, like movies, a lot of times the whole premise of it, if there's a queer character, or a gay character, it's all amounting to this moment of coming out. So it gives this false narrative of being gay equals “you must come out.”
(3:45) TJ: I definitely agree with that entire statement. I think what you just said is probably one of the top things throughout the entire process of coming out itself. And also, I want to note that the whole definition from the University of Wisconsin, I actually have never, like, looked into that and I want, you know, reading through that, and kind of hearing it, it really makes so much more sense with everything going on. And I I think that's such a valid way to kind of explain it all. Um going off with what you said though, with other myths. I do have another quote. So this is actually a quote that I've heard many times, during my process of coming out. The quote says, “What are you afraid of? As long as you don't mess it up, people will accept you.” I've heard my fair share of that. Um, so with that myth, it kind of really is explaining coming out is easy, and everyone experiences it similarly. That's entirely not true. It's a very unique experience with anyone. If you ever join in the future or discuss with someone, you know, an advocacy group or you're discussing with someone that actually had a similar process with coming out, you will come to learn that everyone has their own unique process and it's actually a very interesting topic to ever discuss.
(5:01) Vic: Yeah, definitely. I don't think I know anyone with the same coming out story. Maybe they have similar responses. But it's important to remember that it's hard for a lot of people and to just listen to them when they're telling you their story. So Lynn, I think you have another myth.
(5:20) Lynn: I do. Like you said, some people do have a very hard coming out. And some people make a really big deal out of it. But it doesn't have to be a big deal for everyone. For example, for me, I literally came out to my mother in the parking lot of a Carraba’s, so it was not a big deal for me. So yeah, even if it is a big deal for some people, it isn't for everyone. And you have to learn to come out in a way that makes sense for you. Also, remember that no matter what you don't owe anyone you're coming out, you come out on your terms, you come out the way you want.
(5:55) Vic: Absolutely, that's really important to remember. And just a little addition to that, too. Just because you don't come out doesn't mean that you're being dishonest, or that you're lying. So another quote here, “How can you love yourself, you're living a lie,” that's a myth. You can love yourself, you can be proud of your identity. But you don't have to disclose that to everyone. And there's a lot of valid reasons for why you want to disclose it.
(6:24) Fadia: Yeah, definitely. adding on to what all of you said it. Something that not everyone considers is that you sometimes have to come out, you know, every day, depending on what spaces you're in. And sometimes, like you all said, it's not worth it. If, you know, essentially, you know, it won't be tolerated and not that you agreeing to not come out is saying that, you know, it shouldn't be tolerated. But if you have to advocate for your own safety, that's totally valid, and it doesn't make you any less. Whatever you identify as you're still that... it's, you know, in your heart. And lastly, I wanted to talk about the myth that coming out is either really great, or really terrible, that there's no in between. And this also ties into what you all were saying, sometimes, it's super casual, and like, not really a great experience or not a great experience. It's just like, oh, cool, you know. And, you know, for example, if you're gay, like, say, me, the first time I was hitting on a girl, I felt like I had to be like, “Um, do you know, that I'm gay?” And that wasn't, you know, a really great or terrible experience. I was just trying to get it across.
(7:56) Vic: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And yeah, it could even be and then in an instance of talking to someone else who's queer if you're interested in then because if you don't know, you're not going to know someone who identifies as LGBTQ+ or not. So you might be self disclosing in a space to see if the other person is willing to open up as well. I think now, if there's no other myths that we wanted to kind of debunk, feel free to add on, if there's any that, you know, really stick out to you, there are more, but those are the most pressing that I could think of. And I think the best ones for you to be aware of, for you not to contribute to or continue perpetrating. So we want to get some advice. Now, what are some tips and tricks not only to people who are coming out or who want to come out, or who are continuously in the process of coming out, because like we said, it is a continuous process, but also for people who might be receiving someone coming out to them?
(8:55) Fadia: Yeah, this section of the podcast got me really excited, because I think this is something that can potentially help a lot of people who are maybe in a place where someone in their life is recently, you know, coming to terms with a part of their identity, or just, you know, everyday stuff that we should know. And, yeah, so I wanted to just talk a little bit about how to navigate when someone is coming up to you. So I think there are a couple key things to just keep in mind maybe, and that, if anything else, like expressing gratitude for this person sharing something with you, even if, say it's a really casual thing, just saying thank you. But if it is more intimate and, you know, really vulnerable, I think it's important to let that person know that you are grateful that they felt comfortable enough to share that with you. And going along with that, also respecting their boundaries with sharing as much as they would like to share, you know, keeping it flowing, you know, the way that they are doing it. So not asking a billion questions like very invasively, right afterwards kind of just feeling it out, not, you don't really need to say much besides thank you Affirming their identity, that you express acceptance towards them and you want to be someone that they can come to when talking about these things. So yeah, another little piece of advice that I wanted to give on anyone who is in the process of coming out, whether whatever place you are on that journey, just checking in with yourself and your expectations. When you are, let's say planning coming out to someone, I am just going to share a little nugget of something that happened to me when I was in the process of figuring out if I wanted to come out to my dad or not, I really had to, like, play the scenario in my head of saying he said something really bad and making sure that I knew [that] I just wanted him to know who I was. I didn't need that acceptance, necessarily. It's not a problem if you do need that. But just being honest with why you're doing it, what you want from it. And just knowing that it might not go exactly how you want it to go. But even if it doesn't, there are certainly so many people in this world to accept you exactly as you are, even if that person didn't, it doesn't affect who you are.
(12:03) TJ: Fadia, I love how you added the tip for someone who maybe is not looking to come out, but has someone come out to them. And you know how to handle that situation. I actually didn't think about that, when I was, you know, thinking about different tips and tricks and went through my process. I really liked that that was added. And I love what you wrote with that. Because it's so, it's so important in today's society, it's honestly, I wouldn't say it's an I, it's weird to kind of like go about this, but it's very heartfelt. If someone comes out to you, that means that you're a very special person to them, they trust you. And it's something that needs to be handled in a certain way to where, um, and this is something that's very important to this person, how do you go about this in the correct way. And I love the way that you kind of phrase this.
(12:55) Fadia: Yeah, thank you for saying that definitely came from you know, others not taking it as seriously when I was first coming out. And I really could have used someone just being like, “Thank you for sharing that I was really vulnerable of you. And I think whenever someone's vulnerable with you, that's like a really special thing. And we should acknowledge that.
(13:18) Lynn: Something I could have definitely used is the knowledge that I don't need to come out. Because I was always so scared that if I didn't come out, and I didn't let everyone know who I was, that it didn't… it invalidated who I was. And that's just not true. So for now, I just, I can remember that coming out, it's never obligatory. So if you're in an unsafe environment, or if you just feel like coming out just isn't applicable to anything, you don't have to.
(13:52) Fadia: Yes, to that.
(13:57) TJ: Um, I actually have kind of two tips and tricks I want to talk about real quick. Kind of the first one, I learned this from-- and this is just a quick shout out to my choral teacher from high school, Ms. Carey (I hope you're listening to this)-- um, she kind of worked through this, worked with us on anxiety and pressure. Now coming out, the process of it all, is very emotional and kind of, it brings a lot of anxiety, I won't sugarcoat that, um, but she was able to teach us very effective ways on how to work with your mindfulness. And mindfulness is just something that you do on the daily, maybe more than once a day, that kind of just brings you back. It brings you back. It has you evaluate your situation and it's a great like meditation strategy that really calms your nerves, lets you look at different points of view, lets you look at different scenarios and really just opens up your mind a lot more. I've done meditation and breathing exercises, because we did Mindfulness as not only singers, but also, as you know, just stress relievers, it is a fantastic thing to do. So if you're ever in a moment where you're so stressed out with the process of coming out, start thinking of some mindfulness exercises, I did some journal writing, or daily logs, I would log times of how long I would do stuff, I downloaded meditation apps and breathing apps. And it really calmed me down so much, it was a very effective way to kind of keep me in my own mindful set as I was going through this troublesome process. And then I also did want to add to you guys that um, I'm actually, today's society, and by today, I mean, like, I would say, probably in the last decade or so... Um, there's so much more media and arts revolving around the LGBTQ community, that, um, it's, it's very inspiring. Um, I know I was actually inspired to, I was given my motivation to kind of work towards wanting to be myself through different media outlets such as you know, film, or books, you had movies such as Love, Simon come out. Pixar just released this new film, I don't know if you guys saw it or not. But back in May, they released the, I think Pixar is first LGBTQ+ film called out, which revolves around a man who is troubled with the fact of having to tell his parents that he has a boyfriend, it's a beautiful story. And if I had this when I was growing up, because I grew up in an area where, you know, I didn't watch much media, I didn’t have an outlet to learn about all the different cultures, I feel that that would have helped me a lot more with gaining my confidence to come out. And, um, for children, nowadays, younger children, or younger generations, or anyone that sees just such beauty that's in the mainstream media, you have so many influencers nowadays, it's, it's very inspiring. I'm very happy to be living in today's society, where there's so much of the arts, film and media, because, um, if you ever need your motivation, if you ever decide you want to pursue with becoming your true self, and you want everybody to know that, then there's so many different types of mode of motivations that you can find uh, and I'd say, as easy as three clicks on the phone, on a laptop. And, um, it's very, it's absolutely amazing.
(17:35) Vic: Yeah, definitely. It's also wild to think of how much progress has been made. So I… we could probably have a whole episode on like, amazing depictions of media, specifically, representing LGBT individuals. And we can see it shift now I think, from queerness being the main thing about their character to the multifaceted nature of people. And that queerness is just an aspect of it.
(18:04) TJ: Yes, yes.
(18:05): Vic: And I think it's so beautiful that we can see that because that's what I needed growing up as well. And I really like that you mentioned that because seeing other people's stories, seeing other people, even if they're fictional, like they're based on real experiences, for the most part. So yeah, definitely important to mention that I'm sure you all have experiences being inspired by the media as well.
(18:30) TJ: Thanks to Ryan Murphy, and all of his productions that he's done.
(18:35) Fadia: Yeah, I also really love that you shared this, TJ, because it's definitely important to see someone if you watch a lot of TV, which, you know, lots of children do nowadays, to see someone that looks like you and to know that it's not a bad thing or something that should be kept secret. And yeah, you brought me to thinking is like some comments that I had seen a while ago. I don't know, on social media, of people just saying like, why is Netflix having so many gay shows right now or something like that. But Netflix got back and was like, I don't really remember what, but it was a good thing. [Laughs.] I can't recall.
(19:25) Vic: Probably like “We took too long to have an accurate representation of…”
(19:27) TJ: Yes. (Prolonged). And then I mean, also with, like, all the mainstream stuff, you not only learn from inspiration for yourself, but you also will be educated on, you know, different cultures and how that works. Pose for a great example, will teach you so much about other people and their processes as well, which is also an amazing educational experience to learn from, which is also fantastic in today's society.
(19:57) Lynn: Yeah, like I grew up thinking I was, you know, straight and cis like most people do. And I didn't know queer people even existed. Like, I didn't know Ellen DeGeneres was gay until I was, what, 12/13? Like I was, so I didn't know anything about the queer community. I didn't know anything. And I when I look around, just see characters that just exists as gay or exist as trans or anything like that. It's just, it's so inspiring to see anything like that.
(20:28) Vic: Yeah, absolutely. I think people will question sometimes, why it's so necessary that we have labels, why it's so necessary to have characters with specific labels. But I'm just thinking specifically of the documentary Disclosure, which talks a lot about trans media, if any of you have seen it, it's really good. But a lot of the people on there say “I didn't know what trans was, I didn't know I was trans because I hadn't I didn't see anyone with an experience, like me. And when I did see it, it was villainized. Or it was made to me to be something to laugh at.” And so the first time they see a character who maybe is genderqueer, or, yeah, just an experience that they can relate to, they start to feel like they're not alone. So not only is it important for the LGBTQ plus community to see this representation, but it's also important for everyone to watch this, because it's an accurate depiction of our world.
(21:29) Fadia: 1,000%. And I'm so glad you brought up the closure, if anyone who hasn't seen Disclosure, you definitely should. It's on Netflix, and exactly how Vic said, if the only thing in the media about a certain group of people, is a really negative representation, and it's not being created by those people who hold that identity, it can be really dangerous, as you can see, with the amount of trans women-- specifically black trans women-- who've died from murder. It's, it's really important that we see accurate depictions of people.
(22:12) Vic: Yeah, definitely. Thank you for mentioning that. And we want to acknowledge our identities today. And the fact that, you know, I'm white. I don't, I don't know the experience of being a black trans woman. And we need to make sure that LGBTQ+ community is constantly having these conversations, because it's real. And I know it's hard to process. But yeah, I want to take a moment to honor all of those lives that have been lost even just this year. So continuing on with talking about the importance with personal stories. Today, we're going to share a little bit about our own coming out journeys, and maybe some experiences we want to share or just some more tips and tricks. Me specifically, this is just something I think could be helpful for someone who wants to come out to their family, but doesn't really even know how they identify. So I had a girlfriend, and I still didn't know how I wanted to identify. So I just said, “I have a girlfriend.” I didn't say that I was gay, lesbian, bisexual, pansexual. I just told my dad specifically, you know, I'm dating blah, blah, blah, who he knew was my friend at the time, and then found out was more than a friend. But um, yeah, and to this day, like, I think all he really knows is just that I'm not straight. And honestly, I'm so okay with that, because it could change and just now thinking you might come out more than once to one person. So like, you might come out as let's say, lesbian to your family, and then later in life, like, you discover more about your identity, and you're like, you know what, actually, I am bisexual, or, you know, actually, I'm non-binary. And so you might have to go through that process with different identities and that's totally okay. I think opening up the space to just be like, “Hey, I don't really know how identify not sure what label I use, but I'm not straight. I'm not cis, you know. So that could be helpful if you feeling like, overwhelmed with putting a label on things which you never have to but people usually like to categorize in the society, so we tend to do that.
(24: 37) TJ: Mm hmm. Yes. And then I mean, like you said, and I love how you kind of expressed the fact that you didn't want to sort of disclose how you feel, you know, your identity is because you didn't know yourself, you just wanted to tell your father, you know, I'm dating, I have a girlfriend. And I think that's actually really inspiring. And I hope this is inspiring for anyone that's listening to this, and doesn't know a certain way to kind of go about that kind of experience. Because going back to what we talked about earlier, coming out is a lifelong process, you can come out at different times, and I, I really kind of like I love that story a lot. With my own experiences, I hope I have a very unique one-- it kind of ranges. And it's not a full circle, it's kind of like an everywhere kind of squiggly line. So with kind of growing up, I grew up in a very conservative area, very conservative family. And like I've said before, I kind of grew up without really any exposure to things such as the LGBTQ+ community, um, and actually was never really been exposed to-- I didn’t even expose myself to any relationships. I didn't have many I had, I'd say, like a true relationship. It was a high school true relationship, it was a heterosexual relationship. And in the relationship, I finally was like, “Wait a second. Um, something's not right.” And I think throughout throughout my relationship, I kind of had come to terms in my head that I was a gay man, or at least as of right now identify as a gay man... who knows down the road? You know, everyone's still in the process of self discovery. But with coming out, it was... it was... it was very difficult because in my school, I was known as you know, a kid I had dated a girl, and not many members of the LGBTQ+ community in my school, it's really hard to kind of take account for, I'm talking about the student populace itself, it's really hard to kind of acknowledge that, you know, someone might have been in a heterosexual relationship. And then oh, now they're saying this, that's really weird and questionable. But, I came out to three of my friends, I felt I was very comfortable. I came out to three of my friends. And I actually, and I hope this inspires anyone that happens to this, I actually was outed to the school and sort of to my family. I was, uh, somebody had spread it, and then it spread around the school. And it kind of spreads to family. And then it kinda was like, “No, it's not true.” But then I had to kind of like, come to terms with my family. I was like, “Hey, it's true. Yes.” And I mean, it's a difficult process, because I don't think I was ready for, say, to finally come to terms with it. I wasn't ready to kind of, say it. And I made this difficult. I love my parents to death. I just, it was, it was a very hard summer. It's been a little, I'd say it's about almost a year and a half now since I've officially been out. And I would say it was a very difficult process, I used my meditative mindfulness practices to kind of get me through the summer, I was able to consult with my other friends, they helped me go along. And now a year and a half later, I've never felt more like myself in college, I'm experiencing new things. I'm working with makeup now. I am seeing someone and I am living my best life. And because I feel more like myself. So I hope my personal experiences, anyone listening to this that has anything happen, I hope, I hope I helped. Because that's my goal. My goal in life is to help and educate myself and teach and support students with advocacy and that throughout my entire life, so I really hope that it helps somebody out there and reaches somebody's heart. Thank you.
(28:49) Vic: Well that definitely reached my heart.
(28:53) Fadia: Yeah.
(28:54): TJ: Tears. Yeah, don't cry.
(28:59) Fadia: Oh, thank you so much for sharing, TJ. Yeah, I can only imagine how that would be to have that shared with your family without your consent. So I definitely feel compassion for that and also on the other side of it am so glad to see you, you know thriving now even if it didn't go as planned, that makes me really happy to know that you had people who supported you.
(29:28) TJ: I love you guys so much.
(29:30) Lynn: I know we love you. I'm glad you're in SOGIE now too.
(29:35) Fadia: Okay, I can share a little bit about my coming out story. I relate to TJ on being in a relationship in high school that didn't exactly flow with my sexuality. It wasn't so much that I had to end the relationship, but it postponed my coming out until college because I didn't feel super comfortable in knowing who I was. And freshman year of college, I came out of that relationship. And totally just like, went through confusion for a while. And I wanted to touch on that, because it definitely came from not knowing exactly what label I wanted to be, and having the pressure in my head that I now see a conditioned belief, and the lies that I need to be one thing or another. And if past experiences don't match with the future things, then it can't be. And so I just wanted, you know, whoever's listening to this, to know that just because the world is pushing certain labels or beliefs on you, you can be whatever the hell you want to be, no matter what your past experiences are. Even if you've liked an experience with a certain person, but you want to, you know, identify something that doesn't flow with that, that is totally okay. And it can always change, you don't need to be something now. And if it changes later, you're not, you know, a deceiving person. Because I'm really talking to myself in that it affected me a lot in my coming out process, you know, feeling like I was lying to people if I changed my story and lying to certain people about how I felt. So this goes out to everyone, including myself that it's okay to not know exactly however your feeling is okay. Just feel it.
(31:41) Lynn: I've had a very similar experience of a very changing identity. So that definitely speaks to me. My sexuality has always been pretty stagnant because the moment I knew I could like any gender was like, “Well, yeah, why wouldn't I?” So I have flip-flopped between bisexual and pansexual on and off, but it's always just been, I could date anyone. But my gender has always been something that has changed so much. Because I thought for a while “Yeah, non binary,” but I didn't know what that meant to me. So I identified as pangender for a while then agender, the exact opposite. I did demigirl, demiboy, androgyne, bigender. And then eventually just came to the conclusion that I don't need that micro label for myself. Like I can just exist as non-binary, whatever that means to me. So when I say I am bisexual, and I am non binary, what that means to you may not mean the exact same thing to me and like, that's fine. As long as I'm secure in my identity that I have come out to myself. That's really all you need in life. And yeah, that's my experience with my identity.
(32:52) Vic: Absolutely. The next section of our podcasts fits perfectly with what we're all talking about. What is something you want our listeners to take away? How can they apply what we've talked about today? So everything we've said is really rich and really applicable, especially if you're someone within the LGBTQ plus community. I really appreciate you all being vulnerable. And if you want to take a minute to kind of think about, yeah, something you want our listeners to take away from today. We have a lot of information.
(33:24) TJ: I'll go! I want, once again I'm going to go back to what you said earlier, I love the fact that she added something for listeners that may not identify themselves as members of the LGBTQ plus community. But as an ally, or someone that might have someone else come out to them, I think a great takeaway, and this actually goes for people that are members of the LGBTQ plus community, you will have other people come out to you. Um, I think that's a great kind of thing to take away is the process of how to handle the situation effectively for that person.
(34:06) Fadia: Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because I want people to know that as well. And then another thing that kind of came up as we were just this whole podcast, and I think it's something we all know, but maybe others wouldn't know if they're not super knowledgeable about the LGBTQ plus community, but just how heteronormativity affects all of this, and how the conditioning that everyone is straight, and everyone is cis, really can... you can internalize that. And just knowing that when I learned about that in WGSS classes, I felt so affirmed and acknowledged in, you know, these negative thoughts that I had towards myself knowing that I didn't put them there. And it's just kind of a liberating thing to know that the reason we even have to come out is because everyone assumes that we're straight and cisgender. And that doesn't, you know, not acknowledge the process of coming out. But I think it helps you feel, you know, a little more comforted and not out of place in this whole process.
(35:23) Vic: Yeah, absolutely. And for anyone that doesn't know, WGSS is Woman, Gender, Sexuality Studies, which is a minor, here at JMU, you actually can take just a 200 class as an elective. I highly recommend to learn more about these types of issues and touching a little bit more on what you spoke about. One of my favorite activists, Alok Vaid-Menon says, “What does it mean to make the onus of liberation on the individual (“you come out!”) versus the system (“you eradicate the closet!”)? So yeah, just a little food for thought there.
(35:59) Lynn: I just want to add that, um, as we said earlier, not everyone's coming out journey’s the same. Your coming out journey is probably not going to be the same as one of us because everyone is just so different. So whatever that journey is-- the coming out to yourself, and then coming out to the world. It's so unique to you and it's so special. So never feel invalid for the way that you realize your identity the way that you come out to someone because it is important to you and that's what matters.
(36:30) Vic: Absolutely. So final questions of the episode. This isn't really completely fitting to us considering where you are all undergrads at the moment or at least college aged, but what advice would you give your past self I'll say?
(36:50) TJ: Um, I would say to my past self... Work towards being who you want to be. Don't let anybody stop you from being who you want to be and keep fighting, keep fighting for who you want to be and... I've been doing advocacy work actually for a while so I would tell myself to keep fighting for your advocacy campaign. I've been working for a while on an AIDS education campaign for a grade schools. So I would basically tell myself, don't stop working at it doesn't matter how long it's going to take. Keep fighting for that. And that goes for anything that anybody works on. Keep fighting for what you want, who you want to be and what your goals are.
(37:37) Lynn: I would have to tell myself that I don't have to live in secrecy and I don't have to live uncomfortably That I can correct pronouns or that I can correct what people think my identity is, and that I can live the life that I want to live regardless of what anyone else thinks. So just, I would tell myself to live your own life.
(38:00) Vic: Yeah, similar line of thought, just you don't need permission from anyone else to be you Obviously, we want validation. We want support and you deserve that but if you don't get It there's nothing wrong with you. You have to understand that it's not your fault and you have to continue to love yourself even if others aren't as able to or have the capacity. You are loving being and you deserve to send that to send that love and acceptance to yourself.
(38:33) Fadia: Hmm.. I’m just thinking of younger me and hearing all of these things. They would totally benefit from all this advice. So my advice, I would just hold baby Fadia and tell her that she deserves to be loved by… from the inside and from anyone no matter how you identify and baseline you just love yourself more.
(39:06) Vic: Absolutely. So we have a little fun question for the evening. It's evening time for us right now. Who is your favorite queer icon? I know it's kind of hard because there's so many.
(39:18) TJ: I had my answer. And then I had to think about it again, and it's hurting me. So I'm gonna break the rules, I would say my first one is Kitt Williamson, He is the creator and one of the lead actors and the amazing show, which is on Netflix not sponsored, Eastsiders, a fantastic show, LGBTQ plus show, has Willem, has a lot of other characters in it. I would also say another person real quick is Indya Moore. They are another lead, that's on the show Pose. They inspire me to educate myself more and be a better person and I would say Kit Williamson and Indya Moore would be my favorite queer icons.
(40:10) Fadia: I am gonna say Bridgette [Lundy-Paine], I don't know how to say their name, their Instagram is brig or bridge... They're from Atypical, I cannot recall their last name so I should have probably looked it up.
(40:31) Vic: But it's like Bridgette Lundy or something right?
(40:36) Fadia: Yeah, Lundy-Paine. Now that came to my head. Yeah, I like them a lot.
(40:45) Lynn: Ben Platt came to mind first. If anyone doesn't know who Ben Platt is... If anyone doesn't know who Ben Platt is, he was an actor on Dear Evan Hansen, he is a songwriter now, and he is in the show The Politician. But um, he... through his album, that was his way of coming out and just his songs means so much to me. And, yeah, he was just a great icon for me.
(41:15) TJ: Ben Platt can commit a crime and do nothing wrong.
(41:19) Lynn: Amen.
(41:23) Vic: I would say... I already quoted them, Alok Vaid. I always talk about them because they just opened up my eyes so much to what it means to be gender non-conforming and how liberating that is and what it really means to be a queer feminist. They’re a poet performance artist activist so I really really would encourage you to check them out if you're interested in all of those topics. So yeah, I want to thank you all again for being here, and taking your time to share with us. I'm sure so many people will benefit from all of our experiences and tips and tricks. I know I benefited even from just this conversation. I want to encourage you all to follow the Well’s Instagram on social media @JMUHealthCenter. You can also follow @JMU.SOGIE. We're also on Facebook. That's where you'll be updated with all of our upcoming events, and I encourage you as well to continue listening to the podcast listen to next week's episode listen to last week's episode. And remember, be well, Dukes.
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